Something Borrowed Podcast With Harry Baker
Something Borrowed Podcast With Harry Baker
S4E3: Joshua Idehen - Spinning Grief Into Joy
Happy Christmas! We are joined by Joshua Idehen, AKA the man of the moment AKA the multiverse African Taylor Swift for a festive special that I am absolutely fine with coming out in February.
This was recorded on a very good day for Josh and I am sure whenever you choose to listen to it will be a very good day for you as it is an excellent time. Me and Josh go way back and we talk about our origins, Josh's move to Sweden, the art of making poetry house music, and a hearty amount of dad content thrown in the mix. There are poems on fatherhood, swimming, popcorn and Christmas and much, much more.
Filmed in London at the Bloomsbury theatre, this was our first recording on the road and hopefully not the last, let me know where you'd like to see us come next !
You can find more of Josh's stuff here and my latest adventures here
*At the time of recording the intro I truly believed Shrewsbury was in Wales and I now know that is not the case.
Good morning or evening, or indeed afternoon or night, whatever time it is, wherever you are listening, if you believe in the concept of time, I know I do. I am recording this intro from Shrewsbury in Wales, a lovely, quaint town with a surprisingly busy road running through it, and this episode was recorded in London, no less. We departed from Margate to very much the Shrewsbury of England, londinium, and what a corker it is. We had a massive studio audience, as you can tell from the big, big laughs, although I'd like to think we'd have such big laughs anywhere we went. I've now stood under what seems to be a dinosaur carcass.
Harry Baker:We have Joshua Idehen this month flown over from Sweden especially, and very much worth it. From the second he walks in the room you can feel the energy, and I hope that comes across on the podcast as well. We talk about his new book, his recent musical fame, the graft of years and years of doing the scene together before one of us moved to Sweden, and that's a lot of dad content, which I'm aware is very much my want at the moment. But just to anyone who hates that, I want to let you know I've recently started a poem that isn't about being a dad, which is pretty huge for me and for you. So I hope you enjoy this. Special shout out to Buddy Peace, who is doing his magic on the audio, who said that of all the ones he's worked on, he enjoyed this particularly, and I think I'm biased because I love them all. So to have someone else say that will hopefully break your interest. I will be back at the back, back at the back, back at the end, back at the back end of this, just to ruin the magic.
Harry Baker:This was recorded in de. It takes a couple months to get them ready for you. So we're starting with a Christmas poem, but it's always Christmas somewhere. Again, if you believe in time I know I do I believe in you, I believe in this. Welcome to Something Borrowed, something Borrowed by Harry Baker. To all of my friends who are watching right now, thank you so much for being here. I'm in a good mood and you can't guarantee that these days. I'm going to start off with something old of my own, and that is a poem I wrote when I was 24. So yesterday and I was asked to write a poem about Christmas and I realised that at that point my age coincided with an advent calendar. So I tried to do my whole life as an advent calendar with a memory from each year, and that was about 50 minutes long, so I've sort of condensed it down a bit and this is the sort of selected highlights of my life.
Harry Baker:One it's not realising it and yet being the centre of attention. Two it's being more excited about the wrapping paper than the presents. It is a box, it is a rocket, it is a thought, it is the thought that counts. Three, it's just about grasping the concept of December. Four it is loving it at the time but still being too young to remember. Five it is the school nativity, but you don't have to be the star to be the star of the show, where a tea towel on your head and a dressing gown combo will somehow define you as wise. Six it's writing Christmas cards for everybody in the class because they sell them in packs of 30. Why wouldn't you want to be friends with everyone? Eight, it's a joint Christmas and birthday present for you and your brother. That is four presents worth of present in one in the form of a PlayStation 2. Twice your current lifetime away.
Harry Baker:You will ask Joel about presents growing up and this will still be the one that you both remember. Nine it's discussing when you're allowed to get up instead of when you have to sleep. Can we come in at six? How about seven, settling somewhere between the two, arriving at 6.01. Stockings in arms at the end of mum and dad's bed it is a bit of a squeeze. Now you are both bigger than you used to be.
Harry Baker:11 it is year seven, taking snowball fights to a whole new level. Two pairs of gloves, one for warmth, one for craftsmanship. 14 is having to get to church early. Mum's been asked to do the Christmas morning sermon, to go out live on the BBC Five minutes before broadcast. You're asked if you wouldn't mind moving from the front row. Your new Napoleon Dynamite vote for Pedro t-shirt could be interpreted as a political message.
Harry Baker:Fifteen Is doing your paper round on foot when it is too icy to go by bike. Is Chris telling you that if you post a note through each door in early December you're more likely to get a Christmas tip? Photocopying a handwritten message and filling in the gaps for a personal touch To the recipients of the at number. Thank you For the honour of letting me deliver your papers each morning all year round. In these cold winter months it is nice to have something to get out of bed for. Lots of love, your faithful servant and daily bringer of news, harry.
Harry Baker:16. It's going to midnight mass tonight before, so you can have a lie-in on Christmas morning Checking the order of service with carols as soon as you sat down, fingers crossed for oh come all ye fateful, because that is an absolute belter, and hoping for anything other than once in royal david city because, one, it does not complement your vocal range and two, you and mom refuse to sing that. All christian children should be mild and obedient. Nine Nine it is doing Christmas together for the first time as a couple. She bought you a t-shirt with a dinosaur on it because you have a poem about dinosaurs. You bought her a large tub of peanuts because her brother is allergic to peanuts. She once said she can't have them at home, so when she goes out it's always a bit of a treat. You have no idea how well you will eventually get to know each other, especially given that you will break up one month later. You will not be able to stop wearing that T-shirt. You will question whether or not the peanuts were a good idea.
Harry Baker:21. It's living in Germany and realising they do Christmas so much better than we do. Learning that glue vine really does make your insides glow. Feuer Sangen Bohle is the same, with extra rum and fire involved. He will try to bring this last tradition home with you. Misinterpreting the ratios will leave great-auntie Pauline passed out in front of the fire. This Christmas, you will speak more words to her in German than you have in English for the last three combined. The next year, her gift to you will speak more words to her in German than you have in English for the last three combined. The next year, her gift to you will be a suitcase for your travels that will keep going on adventures even longer than she does.
Harry Baker:Twenty-two, it's a second chance to do Christmas together, for the first time as a couple. She buys you some dinosaur-shaped chocolates because she knows how much it winds you up still being given themed gifts. Ropami wrote five years ago. You buy her anything but peanuts. 23. It's volunteering to cook vegan Christmas dinner this year. Because of mum's treatment, you've never cooked a regular Christmas dinner before, so you may as well give it a go. It's paper hats and Christmas crackers, and there is no turkey in sight Celebrating on the 23rd this year.
Harry Baker:You tell yourself it is okay to break some traditions 24. It is taking the time to go back through every Christmas you've ever had, realising, in amongst everything else changed and there has been a constant throughout that you remember the presence of individuals more than individual presents, except for the PlayStation 2 you and your brother got when you were eight. It is one year since mum's been given the all clear. It is still dairy free, but maybe the occasional pig in blanket. It's asking Grace if she remembers the peanuts the same way you do. It is no comment. It's your niece not realising it and yet being the centre of attention. Knowing as she turned one this year, she still has everything ahead of her.
Harry Baker:Knowing as you turn 24 this year, you still have everything ahead of you. It is praying that she won't grow up to be mild and obedient. It's still keeping your fingers crossed for O Come All Ye Faithful on Christmas Day, but packing your headphones in your bag for the journey home, just in case. It's being grateful for your blessings. Just as Chance the Rapper said, you've made it through this far. Are you ready for what's next? Thank you so much. Can you please welcome to the stage one of my favourite people, one of my favourite poets. He's currently having the best day of his life. Let's not ruin it. Welcome to the stage, the fantastic Joshua Ederhan.
Joshua Idehen:How are we doing? I just want to say, like harry said, this has been the best day of my life and I have to admit the welcome you guys have given me is a solid six out of ten. I just feel like you know, normally I'd come on and I'd be like hi, my name is josh, I'm gonna do some poetry because it would be fine, but I've had such a good day today we're gonna have to level it up. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna do you a favor, I'm gonna walk back there and when I come out, seeing as I'm not good enough, I want you all to imagine I am Taylor Swift. I know what you're thinking. I look nothing like Taylor Swift. For one, I I am too tall. But this is where we're using our imagination, because I am not any Taylor Swift. I am the multiverse Taylor Swift, the African Taylor Swift. Hello, it's me, I am the problem. It's me, and you are Taylor Swift fans, and I shall be greeted as you are expected. Yeah, shake it off, shake it all off. It's Christmas. Thank you, brothers, sisters and everyone in between and beyond.
Joshua Idehen:My name is Joshua Idehen, aka Taylor Swift, and I have a problem. I have two poems I can perform for my something old. I asked Harry, but he said he didn't want to choose for me. So I'm going to ask you I can do a poem about love or a poem about my dad. Wow, okay, love got nothing. Man, man, your 2024 has been dark. Okay, this is all on you anyway. Um, are there any Nigerians in the audience? One, this is me and you, me and you, this is us, this is just us. Uh, for the rest of you, if you're Nigerian, then you automatically have pushy parents, so you can imagine, like my, my parents, they, they wanted me to be a doctor, lawyer, engineer, anyone, something that equals money, right. And so I.
Joshua Idehen:I told my dad at some point that I was going to become a poet. And he said are you gay? And I was like no, it's not how it works, right. And I was going to become a poet. And he said, are you gay? And I was like no, it's not how it works, right. And I was explaining it to him, right, like you know, it's poetry, it's like hip-hop, it's like rap. And my dad was like, oh, like Puff Daddy. I was like no, no, not like him, not like him. See, I had premonition back then. I was like it's the wrong comparison. And so every day I would tell him, every time something good happened in my life. I'd tell him I'm performing with the South Bank, I'm working with a jazz artist, blah, blah, blah, this and that, and my dad would always say the same thing that's very good. When are you going to send me money?
Joshua Idehen:I wrote this piece and it's a piece that Harry really likes. I know he likes and I hope you like it too. I've actually memorized the poem, but I'm holding up the book because this is First of all. It looks cool and also it's marketing.
Joshua Idehen:This one's about me and my dad. A few years ago, the bonds we had began to sag. I mean, unfortunately he lived across the sea, so naturally the conversation had a bit of lag, but recently he's been cross Reason being I took a course in a fad Poetry. You clean your mouth after you say something dirty. You see, children are more than children. They're investments. Investments suggest a path to profit. So I tell him I'm diverting from it. From now on I'll be chasing sonnets.
Joshua Idehen:His response is sudden, swift, and you want to teach any Nigerian patience? Have him argue with his parents. You want to know if my dad is mad, yet He'll be stuck repeating that one same sentence you want to waste your life, you want to wait, you want to wait, you want to you, this boy. You want to waste your life. Daddy, I'm not going to waste my life, shut up. Sorry, dad, this one's about my dad and me. He lived across the sea, but at least an evening a month we had a family meet.
Joshua Idehen:Now these, I rememberly they began with a family treat. Dinner was fried rice, fried plantain, very big portions of beans and very big pieces of very fried chicken. Telly off me and my brother sat at the living room. Mother walked in like the harbinger of doom and in her hand was father on the phone loudspeaker and she placed him in the middle. Mate, forget Lewis Carroll. Five minutes with my dad would turn any Alice Little. You've never heard a belittling, you've never seen a belittling. Five minutes with my dad make a slap to the face, feel like a dose of vitamins.
Joshua Idehen:Meanwhile, while I'm reveling in the bollock game, my brother's by the side spread wise eyes, tired, look on his face like oh well, my brother keeps a mystery. Like roswell, he should work for the government. He's all talk, talk, no telling anything. They ask is quick on the selling. Like what does roland do? Sound engineering? He's a pop dj. He walks down the pub playing britney spears for five pound fifty an hour. At least. He's making money. You are going to die poor. I'm not going to die poor. Shut up, sorry, dad.
Joshua Idehen:Low self-esteem is a vicious dish made of a most malicious recipe. The dismissal of a parent I wouldn't wish on even my worst enemy. I know he thinks in his own way he's doing me a favor. You see, I know my dad. I know him well he's. He's carried on his own weight. Sure, a lot of mistakes, a lot of risks taken, can't say he's too pleased with his own fate and I think in me he sees a scheme to set things straight. You see the speakerphone is trembling Treble from my dad's voice because he's so bloody irate, trying to hijack my dream like a bloody pirate. And my mom don't say much hush on the lips. In her t-shirt, leggings and slips she nods away to whatever my dad would say, and the more violent his voice, the more her head shakes. That's how they used to relate. Now don't get me wrong. Me and my dad we did get on.
Joshua Idehen:I'll give you an example. Remember that song from way back when the Eminem one my name is, my name is, my name is it's the dawn. I played it to my dad. Look what he's done. He goes through his record collection. He plays the track that that track was sampled from.
Joshua Idehen:My father used to have a saying I was your age before you. You would never be my age before me, because that's me and my dad. Remix meets original Sequel meets origin. And even though I grew taller, I could never overshadow him. But you see, I'm on my own lane now. I'm whole grain. Now I'm trying to explain to him that the path I've chosen may not be clear to him, but for me it leads to a new thing, a true thing.
Joshua Idehen:Shut up, sorry, dad. He says there's no money. In poetry it's alright having a fancy vocabulary, but that will never get you an audience. With the bank or the tummy You're underestimating steady cash in hand. It's the best rock many backbones stand. You can't build a family on backward plans, I say he doesn't understand.
Joshua Idehen:He says shut up. I say sorry. Six months, six evenings, no budging. It's like we're playing tennis with muffins. Goodness comes at me with full force. I don't want it. I send it back to the source, it disintegrates everywhere. No one is speaking. Christmas evening no chicken, no rice, no phone.
Joshua Idehen:The relatives have gathered, and relatives only gather when things really matter. Times are great and times are grave. My mum is head to toe in the color of raven, my brother's in the bedroom, locked door, welling Topic of the day. Who's going to pay for the burial, the ceremony, the party in the wake? Oh yes, he has two sons. They'll provide. What careers are they in? Shit? My heart has a tonic, but my pocket has no gin. Ever was a moment. This is the moment of no win. All my dad shut ups are spinning around and around in my noggin till I get a tap on my shoulder. It's my uncle. I can't look him in the face and stare at his sandals. You are the writer, son, aren't you? Yes, uncle, every time I met your father he would always mention you, and I didn't know how to respond to that. But then he followed it up. You should write something about your dad, something long, something good. This one's about me and my dad. Thank you very much.
Harry Baker:Josh, you need a hand. Taylor Swift could never.
Joshua Idehen:Yeah, I don't know. I saw her for three hours and she did Sure For three hours straight Something old.
Harry Baker:We go way back, Way way back the first time I saw you perform was at a club night that my brother put on in Whitechapel, and you did a song about the Northern Line. Yes, that is in my head every time I go on the Northern Line yes, that was the.
Joshua Idehen:You know, when you write an entire album about your depression and your sadness and the way you want the world to be better and you being black and male and proud, and all of that stuff, and then the producer tells you would you like to write one more? And then you, half, as a joke, go why don't I write a song about the northern line, get on the northern line, get on the northern line, get on the northern. And that's the song everyone likes, nothing else. That's what people remember, people. That's what people remember I did a whole set about. You know I'm dark. I'm dark and proud and you know I'm so loud. I'm an african. I got scars on my face like the scars of my soul. Northern get on Northern Line. What do you know about? Back, I put all my money in the back Cheers. Thanks for that. Thank you for that.
Harry Baker:But also then you were doing poetry gigs, music gigs. You now live in Sweden Sweden, yes.
Joshua Idehen:Stockholm, stockholm, yeah, I got out.
Harry Baker:When you moved there, did it feel like starting? Because I feel like I've been doing this for years and there are people who have discovered me very recently and I love that, but they're people. It feels like it slowly builds and then every now and then there's a spike and then it carries on and I feel like you've you'd invested so much in poetry and in the scene.
Harry Baker:And then I mean, since you've gone, it feels like it's better than ever, but I don't know if that was always on the cards. Not like the uk is not better than ever. We are aching in our loss, but I feel like you're thriving yeah, yeah, I, I I've been lucky.
Joshua Idehen:Uh, I'm blessed that I went to sweden and they took me me in like a little lost, wet puppy in the rain. By the time when I left the UK I'd had a divorce. It was all my fault. It was 99% my fault and 1% the weather. So, yeah, don't come to port from us.
Joshua Idehen:And, as I guess anyone in the audience who's ever been through a divorce, you kind of there's a set way that things happen. You have your decree, absolute on easy. Everything gets split down the middle. Her friends stay her friends, and then your friends become her friends, which leaves you with no friends. And then you move to stockholm, right, which is yeah.
Joshua Idehen:At the time when I left, I kind of felt a particular darkness around the UK and I felt very alone, and so the idea of moving was the most appealing. Then it's like, yeah, let me go somewhere where everyone kind of speaks English, right, and they can talk behind my back, to my face. But the good thing about going to Stockholm was that everybody there does speak English, but no one writes poetry in English. They all write in Swedish, but they all understand English. So the only poet like me doing poetry in English was just me right, which it? I mean, sweden is a big place, it's huge. So, kind of well, at the time when I started doing music and I got management or whatever, like it just turns out that I'll take, for example, they were doing this thing called the polar prize, where they were giving an award to, uh, chris blackwell, who's the head of island Records, and they were also giving it to Angelic Kijo, and Angelic Kijo did a cover of Talking Heads you know, stop Making Sense album, right, and the Polar Prize, which is an award on national television in Sweden, in front of the King of Sweden. They wanted to do something that kind of linked Chris Blackwell, who was a good friend, to David Byrne, and it was at Chris Blackwell's house that they recorded that album.
Joshua Idehen:So it's like kill two birds with one stone. Let's get someone to do Once in a Lifetime. Now they were like oh, sanjay Likidjo, we should probably get someone black and male and a poet who is like that it's just me. I was the only one. You know, know, in the uk there's like 10 people, but in sweden it's just me. That is my market. So, yeah, the lady who saw me, she was like I want him, I want him to do talking heads, I want and also it really helped that at the time when I was doing that project I had completely separate from this. I was dressing like david byrne, I was wearing an odd suit and and performing poetry on top of house music. So, yeah, I have been lucky that like stuff like that keeps happening. But it just so happens that there, when something comes into my niche, I'm literally the only one. Don't come to sweden. It's a terrible place if you're. If you're a poet no, don't, it's horrible. It's a terrible place if you're. If you're a poet no, don't, it's horrible.
Harry Baker:It's cold like seven months, you won't like it. The closest I had to that was when my prime number poem went viral on ted. I started getting booked and I for specific sort of maths things and I became the poet laureate of the National Cypher Challenge, which is a code-breaking competition for teenagers that took place at Bletchley Park. And they were like, oh, can you do half an hour of your sort of maths poetry? And I've never done a poem so slowly in my life. And I had like occasional maths references in other poems. I was like, oh, I'll do those. But one of those was about me joining pole dancing society at uni and, like, 90% of the poem is not about maths or appropriate for code-breaking teenagers.
Joshua Idehen:And it was just.
Harry Baker:But I was maths poet for a while and I was dinosaur poet for a while and I sort of feel like I've gone through these various stages the eras, as a Taylor Swift fan would say yeah exactly, You've been through the eras.
Joshua Idehen:Yeah, exactly.
Harry Baker:And how is it now coming back and performing here versus performing back in Sweden?
Joshua Idehen:For my well, first off released a book, so that's great, and then 1099 over there. First off released a book, so that's great, and then 10.99 over there. Yeah, um, but um, in sweden it's good because people speak english, but around europe we find that because I, I do stuff with dance music there, they're more into the dance than they're into the poetry because english is not their first language. And I find that, like in the uk, when we do gigs here, people really get the in jokes, like all the in jokesjokes and all the references, because I talk about London a lot.
Joshua Idehen:You know, it's that ex-girlfriend I can't get over. Even though I broke up with her, I'm still texting and, you know, asking if she's okay and I want to be friends, and she doesn't respond to any of my text messages but I keep texting and I have to live with the fact that I am the weirdo in her life. But yeah, I find that in the UK people who like my stuff really like it and they really get it and it's like top to bottom and they quote lyrics and stuff like that. So there is that connection, there's that affinity.
Harry Baker:Because also in Germany they don't have the Northern line.
Joshua Idehen:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I don't do that song anymore, I've moved on on. Why won't?
Harry Baker:you? Um, I want to talk about your new book and your new sort of ep, but can I do something new first?
Joshua Idehen:yeah, yeah, of course, of course, smash it. Do the one about prime numbers. See, seeing, we're talking about old stuff. Do the one about prime numbers. I like that one so much.
Harry Baker:We're on to our new now, josh. Unsurprisingly, something new for me is Baby, and this is one I wrote on day 39. I do not know exactly what popcorn is, how it can exist in one of two states, small and full of potential, or jumped out of its skin. The only food audacious enough to announce its own arrival with a bang, a coming out party in starchy form, most determined of snacks. Get your teeth stuck into it. It gets stuck in your teeth right back.
Harry Baker:I do not fully trust that it is related to other types of corn or that it was indeed cultivated over a thousand years ago, long before microwaves or stripy paper bags. I do know how to make one sweet and one salted and then mix them together like they do in the cinema. How to eat my dinner first while your mum is feeding you. How to place you sleeping on my chest so she can feed herself too. Popcorn and a drink, carefully balanced either side everything I could possibly need within reach.
Harry Baker:I do not know how to suppress a sneeze. I do know now that trying to hold it in only causes it to come out more abruptly. My chest erupts and you are launched with such force that for a moment, your whole body becomes airborne. Eyes flash open at the apex of your flight, arms splayed full starfish before coming into land. You look so startled that I cannot stop my chest heaving with laughter. Yet somehow you settle back exactly into the same sleeping position, breathing just as deeply as before, small and warm and full of potential, my heart entirely ready to explode nice thank you.
Harry Baker:So something new, but I also guess something old, if it's got me and my dad poem in there. This book of your poems, yes, how did that come about? How did you choose what to go in it? It?
Joshua Idehen:started actually from a mutual acquaintance, vanessa Kisule, saying we shared a ride home and she was very surprised that I had not written a book and I'd been doing spoken word for like 10 not around eight, nine years at the time. And she was like you just put your poems in a book. Because I had loads of poems that I had written on different occasions, when I was for music, when I was upset, when I was angry, when I was in love, and they were never part of a collection or with the idea of a collection. And she was like just put them in a pamphlet. And around the same time, uh, jake, the publisher from Bad Betty, had been approaching me, going give me your book, give me something. So I thought, okay, I'll give him these poems as a pamphlet.
Joshua Idehen:Also, I had like serious low self-esteem around my own work. I felt like maybe they didn't work that well on page and so I sent him all of my pieces like here you go. And he was like, uh, these are very nice, can you send me more? And so I kept on sending them and then we ended up with like about 40 poems and, um, I didn't know how they fit as a book. I just felt like there were a bunch of poems that are all just kind of like like a bunch of cats that you had forced into a bath and they've all decided you know we're gonna stay here but we don't like it and we're not gonna talk to each other, we're just gonna stare at you and make you, make you look at what you've done right.
Joshua Idehen:But thankfully, uh, amy acre, who is jake's partner and an amazing, amazing editor, she came in, she took a look at all my pieces and she was like you're talking about the same three, three things you're talking about, you know, your personal stuff london and politics and those became the three sections and, yeah, the book kind of found its life through there. And, uh, I think the first interview I did for the book, someone was like it's such a perfect, natural narrative that goes through the entire book, how did you make it? I'm like, well, when I was young.
Joshua Idehen:no, it was Amy who crafted it and made it what it is.
Harry Baker:I remember that same feeling in terms of everything I've written, pretty much has been with an name to share it on stage, yes, and so so much of it is in the performance. And I think, especially when I started out I was doing these poetry slams where you have three minutes and then people give you a score out of ten for that performance usually four for me but thinking I don't know how these fit on the page or if they work. And it was speaking to someone who said it's as much a way of you keeping a hold of these poems and making sure they don't get lost, because I think, as a performer, there are poems that feel relevant and come in and out of relevance and there are other ones that sit there for a moment and then kind of get put on the back burner, Whereas I think once it is in print it feels solid.
Harry Baker:It feels like something that can exist beyond the room that you're in, and I think for a lot of my work people will get my book after seeing me perform, whether that is live or online, and so there's a sense of my voice coming through it. But then it's when it is given to someone as a gift who's never come across your work before. That felt like a real thing of giving up that control, because I think when you're performing a poem, you can let people know how you want them to feel during yeah, you can change it page.
Harry Baker:It's solid and it's permanent. So I think I love your poems and I'm very excited to to get one and read it. But I completely feel that sense of knowing that it works out loud and thinking how can it work on the page?
Joshua Idehen:Yeah, because it's probably. You know, robert Frost said a poem is never finished, it's just abandoned. And I think for a spoken word artist, the page is the final abandonment, because not only are you committing to a version of the poem, because when you perform it, you know, once you get it on the muscle memory and you might learn a different way to say something, so you're always constantly changing, it's always evolving, but on the page that's it, that's the line. If you said something stupid, it's there, right, you know you can change it when you perform it, but when people read it they're not going to hear it in your voice. I mean, I've done really this is where I get to talk about my book again I've done a really cheeky thing because all of my pieces, they've all become a song, because I've either performed it with a band or I've turned it into a song. So we put QR codes at the bottom of every poem so you can scan the QR codes and whilst you're reading the poem, I am there with you On Spotify. You listen to me read a poem, so you will never hear it in your voice, just mine. But naturally, no people hear it in their own voice and they hear it in their own time and they read at their own pace. You know they don't have your cadence, they don't have your pauses and they bring their own experiences. They are in collaboration with you in the piece, so you know they can read a line that you intended to mean something completely different, but it will mean something for them. That might be a way that you didn't intend and you have to make peace with that, right, and that's the beauty and the horror, unless you put QR codes at the bottom of every poem, because you will not be sorry, I'm joking. Would you share something new? Yes, yes, I absolutely. You will not be Sorry, I'm joking. Would you share something new? Yes, yes, I absolutely will share something new. I'm a bit annoyed with you because when we started, I went up to Harry and I told him my something old will be that poem or my something new will be a poem about being a dad. Right, because I wrote a bunch of poems about being a dad and this guy he was like like that's a really good idea, and then you've just been murdering the stage with your dad pieces, thanks. Well, I too have written poems about being a dad. They're not as long as his. So don't worry, basic it's. I think it's the same with him.
Joshua Idehen:Like I have a three-year-old, her name is bird song yes, I am a hippie, her name is bird song. And you know, when a child is two and the two of you have an argument, like you argue with your kid, full blown, you know they fold your hands, you fold your hands and you don't speak to each other for like five minutes or however long, maybe a year, and then that's not what I did. And then they, they, they grow up and they become three and when they're three, you, you, they do something that makes you realize how young and innocent they are. And then you remember, when they were two, you had a full-blown argument with them and her excuse was that she was two at the time. What's my excuse? I was that she was two at the time. What's my excuse?
Joshua Idehen:So, yeah, in Stockholm I take her to school. There's a ramp at the end of our council estate flat and when we get to the ramp she doesn't like to hold my hand that much, but at the ramp, just at the top of it, she will grab my hand and she will yell three, two, one go. And then we'll both run down the ramp and then she gets to the bottom. She's like, oh my God, wasn't that great. And I'll be like, yeah, okay, let's go to school. And then there was this one day when we had had an argument on our way down. She wanted to take her dinosaur to school and I was like no. And she folded her hand and she goes three, two, one go and we run down and then we get to the bottom. We're both panting and everything is forgiven. And as we're walking I realize there's going to be a day when it will be the last time she offers me her hand and I will not even know it. And from that point on I started writing poems about every moment. Right, completely separate from Harry Baker, started writing poems about every moment I thought was important, and these are a collection of the first 15. They might be longer than 15, they might be 18, I don't know. So a bunch of poems on birdsong.
Joshua Idehen:Number one hallucination due to sleep deprivation. I woke up in the middle of the night and shook my partner rigorously. I demanded. I sternly and coldly demanded. I said Julia, give our daughter the milk, don't save any of it for the queen. Earlier that night I had binge watched season two of the Crown.
Joshua Idehen:Two hallucination due to sleep deprivation. My partner spilled out of bed, handed the baby to me she put on her bathrobe, said she is off to return her breasts for a new pair. These ones don't work right and that is not fair. I stood in the doorway, bird song in hand, pleading with her saying stay. Saying you don't even have the receipts anymore, do you? Three breast pumping noise sounding like the experimental score of an A24 prestige horror movie set in a cave.
Joshua Idehen:Four it is past midnight. I am am on google. Her breathing is loud and squeaky. A rusty bicycle what does this mean? I'm scared she's going to die. Five it is past past midnight. I am on google. She is quiet. What does this mean? I think she may be dead.
Joshua Idehen:Six I would murder every dolphin alive for an hour of sleep. We are aligned, harry. Seven A thousand curses on the God of overtired babies. What is your purpose? You have no purpose. Purpose I hope all your farts are loud. I hope the holding music of your afterlife is nickelback. I hope you fall out of love or all your favorite music. I hate you. Eight dear lord, give me the strength to evict bad energies from my life with the conviction of my daughter evicting baby formula from her mouth. Nine my child projectile vomited on the midwife. I am ashamed and proud.
Joshua Idehen:Ten a reference for all my fellow gaming dads and moms the first month of a baby is a dark souls of parenting. 11. Actually, the second month is a dark souls of parenting. 12. Scratch that when they learn to walk is the blood bond of poetry. I can tell only the gaming dads get that. Everyone else game dads and moms get that. Everyone else is like blood bond, Okay. 13. No sound under heaven is as calming as a baby's burp.
Joshua Idehen:14 honestly, some days I just want to be held and told my daughter isn't going to die because I didn't wash a bottle at 100 degrees celsius that one time. 15, once you accept never sleeping and your clothes always smelling of old milk. Being a new father is kind of awesome. 16. Why is the answer to every newborn health issue on Google oh, that's perfectly normal. But once you're an adult the answer is oh, no, my G, you're gonna die, my G, you better write a. Will my G die my G? You better write a will my G.
Joshua Idehen:17. The first time my daughter had hypnotized by Notorious BIG. We were on the living room sofa. She lay flat on my lap. I tried to move her to the beat. Instead she held my fingers, still with her tiny hands, like a captain on the oars of a restless boat, held me captive in her cross-eyed stare. We were the only two people alive that time. I doubt she will remember this. She is only a 12 day old child. I doubt I will ever forget. I am a 12 day old dad. 18, birdsong is not saying I'm sorry. I kept you up with my screaming and back arching and refused to be touched. That got so bad. You almost took me to the hospital, but then I went straight back to bed in the uber at 2 am like no big deal. But you know what she's sleeping on my chest. I will take my wins. 19 true self-forgiveness, like all my mistakes and missteps all make sense now because everything I've ever done has led to her.
Harry Baker:Thank you come on, stunning. I mean now I'm annoyed, but stunning cheers. Thank you so much. The other something you want to ask about is your new EP because, as you mentioned in your book, a lot of your poems you've released as music and I found out today I saw the sort of first outing of this when you came to Margate to do a work in progress and at that point it was more of a theatre show. So can you just talk about how it became what it is? Okay, so Divorce.
Joshua Idehen:Depression, sweden yeah, show, yeah. So can you just talk about how it became what it is? Okay, um so, divorce, depression, sweden yeah. And then child born and at that point I'd released a lot of music with a band called sons of comet, and another band called the comet is coming.
Joshua Idehen:That was very angry, very much about the politics of the time, and I I did an album with a producer called Daedalus which was, uh, was a lot about my depression and my sadness out of that, mixed with politics as well, and so I got the opportunity to work on a project. I got some funding to do it and at that point I realized that I I didn't want to be sad anymore and more than that, I didn't want to put any of that sadness out there anymore. I mean, good on people who do that. Like you know, misery loves company. But I just kind of felt like I could look at my daughter and I want to make the joy that she lives in, and there must be some way I can spin my grief into joy.
Joshua Idehen:And also I was thinking well, it kind of feels like the world is going to end, so I might as well do what I want, and what I wanted to do was house music and poetry. Right, that's what I wanted to do. I was like you know. I'd spent decades constantly going why isn't anybody making house music and poetry? It's so cool. Love yourself.
Harry Baker:That's very good.
Joshua Idehen:Yeah, and a friend of minewig palment who lived in sweden. I approached him and I told him I want to make, uh, house music and poetry. Would you like to make the beats? And he said I think that's a silly idea, but I'll give it a go. And and the first thing he sent to me, I sat in my kitchen and the first line that came out of my mouth was don't you give up on me, don't you dare. And everything else flowed out and we've been working ever since. And, yeah, you were the first poet that I knew who actually saw the project when it was a work in progress, and I was so terrified because I was like I booked this gig in Margit and I was like it's safe, it's Margit, no one lives there, no one's going to see it lives there, no one's gonna see it. I can make all the mistakes I want. And then he turns up with all his friends going you, alright, josh, I saw you were performing. I thought why not? Yeah, put the fear of God back into me, yeah, so that's kind of what we've been doing. We've been doing it for a few years now, lots of support. It's been working very well.
Joshua Idehen:In Sweden I got to perform in front of the King of Sweden, did a headline show just a few days ago that sold out. It's been doing quite well and, strangely, it's the most esoteric niche thing I've ever done. Like, I'm not singing, I'm not rapping, I'm doing poetry over house music. That's how weird it is and it's the one thing I've done that's connected the most. Like I, how weird it is and it's the one thing I've done that's connected the most. Like I've literally had, you know, people who are completely out of my, my remit, my idea of what my audience is. Right, like I.
Joshua Idehen:I did this performance to like five people one time and at the very front, because they were there to see another band called lazy habits and I was supporting and there were like five people in the audience and two of them were these big, huge, burly meant and I was like you know what I'm just gonna do? A performance, I'm fine, whatever. And I did it. And these guys came up to me and this man's one hand swallowed both of my hands don't ask me how he did it and he looked and he said that poem you did about friends falling out, that got me.
Joshua Idehen:And that was the moment I realized like, okay, this has legs, because 10 years of doing projects, right, no one had ever connected to any of the stuff I had done, that had been heartfelt, like when I did stuff about public service, public transport this dude right burns me into his memory. But here I was doing kind of like the most honest, the most open, the most vulnerable stuff, and people were going, yes, yeah. And I was like, okay, this, this is what it is. So, yeah, I'm, yeah, it's been good so far.
Harry Baker:I wrote a poem last year about struggling to have a baby, partly because no one I knew was talking about it, and I just wanted to put that down. I've heard it and that is the thing I've done. That I think that most people have connected with because it was so true to me and where I was at and and where it was coming done. That I think that most people have connected with because it was so true to me and where I was at and where I was coming from.
Harry Baker:So I think when it may feel niche, when you're being fully yourself in it. I think people connect with that yeah, it's, it's.
Joshua Idehen:It's strange because there's no real answer. It's the answer is not. You know, pour your heart on the page and say the most depressing, sad, shameful thing and that connect. Because sometimes that's not what happens, like it hasn't happened for me for 12, for 10 years. I would do stuff where I was feeling like I was the most honest and it didn't connect. And sometimes you know, it's not just be carefree and frivolous and because I sometimes I do that and no, it's like it doesn't connect. There is no real straight answer.
Joshua Idehen:I think I've had that time of just sharpening my tools and sharpening my skill sets in expressing myself. That now, when I do say something or put something on the page that is about me, it does reach and I understand how lucky I am to be in that space. It's not something that's guaranteed, it's not something that is that is promised at the end of a 10 000 hours, right and so to to be in a place, especially now that my work seems to have a purpose, is not something I take lightly. And yeah, speaking on that poem, I really like that poem. I hate you for writing it because I wanted to write it. I wish the genius had come to me to write that piece. It's such a good piece. I hate you so much. I love the piece and hate you Thank you.
Harry Baker:I want to chat to you forever, but I also want to give everyone a chance to buy a book afterwards. So I'm going to do something borrowed Go on, go on, go ahead, go. So this one of my favourite poems is the Summer Day by Mary Oliver, but I also borrowed a line from it from my popcorn poem. Who made the world? Who made the swan and the black bear? Who made the grasshopper? This grasshopper, this grasshopper, I mean the one who has flung herself out of the grass, the one who is eating sugar out of my hand, who is moving her jaws back and forth instead of up and down, who is gazing around with her enormous and complicated eyes. Now she lifts her pale forearms and thoroughly washes her face now she snaps her wings open and floats away.
Harry Baker:I don't know exactly what a prayer is. I do know how to pay attention, how to fall down into the grass, how to kneel down in the grass, how to be idle and blessed, how to stroll through the fields, which is what I have been doing all day. Tell me, what else should I have have done? Doesn't everything die at last, and too soon? Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?
Joshua Idehen:are you up for desert? I'm up for doing something borrowed. This is from a poet who I wish I was a better friend with before he passed away. His name is uh jacob lewis and the poem is called suspicion is warranted. Found a dead boy in a crater at the bottom of my garden, brought him back to life with Mozart and affection, called him Alex after the great conqueror taught him everything I know he didn't do well at school, showed no signs of superpowers. I carried him on my back until he was 14 because his spine was weak and he was prone to blackouts, which shook my world because, I did not know how long they'd last.
Joshua Idehen:Alex had a breakdown at 21. I told him where he was from, showed him the exact spot. By that point I loved him, felt like he was mine. So I tried to infuse the story with the same tenderness that mothers feel the bellies of storks or priests feel the mind, your buried dreams. But it was no good. I couldn't patch him together. He wanted to know. I couldn't blame him.
Joshua Idehen:He tore up the garden searching for clues, found only memories. I'd given him A punctured football, hacksaw, blade, coins, bucket and spade, a cut knee. That made him hate me, thought I was covering up. He searched the internet for other dead boys and conspiracy stories, went missing for a week. I got the shakes.
Joshua Idehen:I couldn't concentrate at all, drank too much, waited for the police to call, didn't do the laundry. When he came back he said he understood, wouldn't explain, but sorry said no more worries would ever come our way. He said it like a prophet, like he had superpowers. We lived together for 20 more years. Can't tell you how happy we were. Measure it in oceans instead of streams, skyscrapers instead of bungalows. Not everyone is allowed to love. Remember that when I died he cried until his eyes became earth dry. He howled and screamed until his voice left him. He beat his hands against the walls of our house, smashed them into mulch. That night he dug a giant hole in the garden, laid me out, assembled all my favorite things around me, waited for my return, but I never did Not once, no matter how hard I tried.
Harry Baker:Thank you so much. Before we both finish on something blue. If people aren't willing to make the trip out to Stockholm, where can they see you perform?
Joshua Idehen:Well, I have a headline show happening in April, end of April, starting with the 23rd, at the Jazz Cafe. So I can say now it's going to be a good show, it's going to be the best show, but it'll be even more amazing if you turn up. No, it will be good, we'll be doing. It's London, bristol, brighton, manchester and Lloyds. So that's happening and if you buy a copy of my book or my vinyl, then you can just take me home with you. So, you don't really need to go anywhere. Think about it.
Harry Baker:That's what I'm saying. Amazing, thank you. I'm going to do something blue. This is something blue because my wife's granny just knits hats non-stop and she knits them for like sailors, and they're weatherproof, they're invincible. And she knitted one for my son and it's like he's very cute, but when he wears that, hat, everyone loses their minds.
Harry Baker:96, we have come to meet your 96 year old great granny. For each day of your life she has been here for an entire year. For your three months on this planet, she has seen 1152. For your 14 weeks in this world, she has managed 5,009.
Harry Baker:The front door is open, so we announce ourselves and by the time we get to the living room, she's already gone to the kitchen to make everyone a cup of tea. After all, she has waited this long to meet you. What is a couple more minutes? After all, she already has pictures of you in frames on the side and up on the wall. All she already has pictures of you in frames on the side and up on the wall. After all, she has already knitted you your favorite hat. What stronger bond could there possibly be? She used to foster babies straight out of the hospital. One of them she even adopted as her son. When we ask her about it, she gives shorter answers than she used to, but as she emerges, mugs in hand, a simple three words is enough. Her face lights up and she exclaims what a beauty noise. I thought I'd put a little bit of maths in there, just in case.
Joshua Idehen:Invited back to the conference are you up for doing something? Yes, yes, yes, I am okay. This is my blue poem and it's blue because it's about swimming and the ocean is blue, so tenuous. But that's what you're getting and it's from my book, which is I've memorized it. But no, yeah, when I went to stockholm, because it's really as a city, it's just a bunch of islands connected by very, very big bridges Everybody there knows how to swim and I didn't, and I went to a swimming lesson, or everybody there was an immigrant, apart from the teachers.
Joshua Idehen:And it turns out I actually have very little fat and also my bones are very heavy, so I can't swim in one spot, I just sink. And I tried really hard and they tried to teach me and it didn't work. And I was also struggling, swimming forward and back. And then the teachers that we normally had they, they took a break one night and instead we had this very old, very gruff, very chain-smoking man and he was like okay, everybody, go in. You're not using any rubbers, no plastic, no, nothing. You're just going to swim, just swim, just get it out of your system. And I said to him okay, look, I can't swim. I'm trying my best but it's not working. I've got really heavy bones. And he just stood there and looked at me and he goes you're a shark. And I was like what he was like? Yeah, you're a shark. If you stop swimming, you die. I'm a shark and that's it. That cured it for me. So I can. If I move forward or I move back, then I'm fine. The moment I stop, it's game over. I'm a shark, I am Jaws.
Joshua Idehen:I wrote a piece about swimming. Stay cool, learn to swim. I only started learning last year and now I am 42. And if you already know how to swim, I only started learning last year and now I am 42. And if you already know how to swim, good for you. This is for all the people behind you Stay cool, learn to swim. Nah, mate, you're not too heavy. Your bones are not too dense. Pennywise was right In the end, everyone floats.
Joshua Idehen:Stay cool, learn to swim. Your skin will thank you, your mind will thank you and if there's blood in the water, sharks will thank you. Do not swim in the River Thames. Nobody asks you to do that. So, thank you. Do not swim in the river Thames. Nobody asks you to do that.
Joshua Idehen:Some things will always be true. The sun always sets in the west Right now will always be as good as it gets. Romeo and Juliet is tragic. Time is wasted on worry, and every one of us is made of pure, unadulterated magic, except for Boris Johnson. Trans rights is human rights. Palestinian rights is human rights.
Joshua Idehen:Some things, by now, should be a given. It looks worse when it's online. Facebook is not researched, no matter the number of hours you spent on it. There are no solutions at the bottom of a doom scroll, and you are never at your best when you are looking at someone else's highlight reel. Time heals all wounds and makes new ones, but a hot shower will cure 99% of bad vibes. Trust me.
Joshua Idehen:You should be nice to yourself. You should be nice to people, except for Nazis. No one should ever be nice to Nazis. There are so many ways to be yourself. Just don't get lost in the options. All the paper straws in the world won't save a single polar bear, but making Amazon pay their proper taxes is good, and all of your idols will let you down, except for Keanu Reeves, because Keanu Reeves is perfect. You don't have to like Pink Floyd. You don't have to like Prince Floyd. You don't have to like Prince. None of it is by force and every elder is a village, but some villages are full of racists and aren't worth the visit.
Joshua Idehen:Protect your peace, cherish your joints, eat your fruits and vegetables and mind your own business. Do not be afraid to dress like an idiot. At least once in your life, embrace your cringe. Embrace your cringe. New York is nice, but everyone should come to London City. If they won't let you join a union, start a mafia. The means you cannot seize you should steal. And if you love doing a thing and you're not in anyone else or yourself, do the thing. Don't let anybody stop you doing the thing. If you love shoplifting from department stores, do the thing. Department stores are not people.
Joshua Idehen:Sometimes the answer is to sleep on it. Sometimes you need to face it head on and sometimes it's scary in your head and when you stop running you realize the monster was a shadow all along and your heart will be broken and you will break hearts. And when the dust settles in your spirit, do not forget to forgive yourself. Call all the friends you've fallen out with, tell them you missed them. Dying right is overrated, but that does not mean you shoot down a bottle of Melo and text your former lovers. Nothing good will come from that.
Joshua Idehen:Recognize the difference between alone and lonely. More often than not you won't resolve all the loose ends in your life. You are not that kind of movie. You're more a rambling soap opera that will eventually run out of budget. And I hope you get old. I hope when you get old compassion is cool again and, if you're lucky, one day you will wake up and you will be out of the Zyguys' eye and you won't recognise the music and you'd rather go to bed at 10 o'clock and your pleasures will be gentler, your movements slower, your goalpost shifted, your former burden slightly lifted, and that will be okay because it happens to the best of us and the rest of us. Maybe by then, london, maybe by then you would have stayed cool, and maybe by then you would have stayed cool and maybe by then you can do something else with your life, like learn to swim.
Harry Baker:Thank you so so much. Can we give it up one more time for Josh Idehen.
Joshua Idehen:Happy holidays everyone.
Harry Baker:Oh, what a wonderful, wonderful time. I love josh, I love you, and I love getting to bring my two loves together in the form of an audio recording. Thank you to the bloomsbury for having us. This was recorded as part of a kind of harry christmas special, and I have just announced my tour around most of the UK for the first half of 2025, the year of our Lord. So please do look up those dates.
Harry Baker:I am coming to London. I'm not coming to Shrewsbury, but I wish I was and I'm hopefully coming somewhere near you. So, if you check those out and I'm hoping that the Christmas shows can become a tradition as well maybe venturing out of fair London so if you live anywhere, then let me know and hopefully I'm either coming to you on tour or will be coming to you in christmas, you know, or whenever, but mainly that's a uk thing, but I'm working on it. If you live outside the uk, I especially appreciate listening to this and one day I'll try and make it to you as well. So, as as always, get in touch, leave a review, stay brilliant. You're amazing. Goodbye.